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Do we pay MORE for surgery than it actually costs?

kanyeknievel

kanyeknievel

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Joined
Jul 12, 2010
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I dont know if this belongs in this sub-forum.

Do we pay more money for surgeries than it actually costs to perform the surgery, the tools, the medication, the doctors/nurses/etcs pay, etc. for surgery? By this I mean say a surgery costs 10k, does that 10k mean it costs 10k all together for everything involved in the surgery (doctors, staff included) or do we pay much more than it actually costs to cover all of the things needed to perform the surgery?

I know its kind-of a bussiness in a way but do we pay more, if so a lot more than the surgery costs all together?

If so I think that is ludicrous!!! I mean we are working on REAL PEOPLE and their lives here with something THEY NEED! (in most cases; this discussion is about surgeries that we really need to have done to live and survive and to prevent death, not like implants or plastic surgery) I mean how absolutely terrible is it that we have to pay thousands of more dollars, insurance or not, for a surgery we need to survive and live? Its appauling that hospitals are charging so much more money than the actual cost to cover everything, leaving many people in debt or at loss of a huge amount of money, just because they were unfortunate and unable to live without the surgery.

I think the etichal thing would be to charge the person just the amount of money to cover all of the actual costs, and not a penny more. I mean its not like they have a choice, the only choice people have in these cases is ' okay you have to pay 5,000 or you can die'. Its like saying 'oh you dont have enough extra money to pay? Oh you'll be in debt for the rest of your life? Sorry then this life saving procedure isn't for you!' I mean how awful is that? I believe that people shouldn't have to pay that much more money just so they can live! This is real peoples lives on the line here and it all comes down to a factor of money. Money money money, money is worth more than to save a persons life? Money is worth more than a HUMAN BEINGS life?!

If they DONT charge more money than it actually costs to cover all fees than my whole point is invalid. BUT IF THEY DO, seriously?!

What do you all think about this
 
Well lets say you get surgery. You pay 10'000$.

The cost of doctors time, nurses, medication etc, probably isnt close to half that amount..

But, the equipment you are using, ie even just the table your lying on, costs more than your surgery. If your surgery involved the cost of every bit of equipment at the brand new cost it would be hundreds of thousands.

So they have to incorporate in your fees the cost of paying off the things they bought which will be used many times like MRI machines etc.

Surgery is expensive because everything about running a hospital is extremely expensive and they still have to make money ontop of that to make said hospital better + pay interest/loans/investors back and many other things.
 
moonyham said:
Well lets say you get surgery. You pay 10'000$.

The cost of doctors time, nurses, medication etc, probably isnt close to half that amount..

But, the equipment you are using, ie even just the table your lying on, costs more than your surgery. If your surgery involved the cost of every bit of equipment at the brand new cost it would be hundreds of thousands.

So they have to incorporate in your fees the cost of paying off the things they bought which will be used many times like MRI machines etc.

Surgery is expensive because everything about running a hospital is extremely expensive and they still have to make money ontop of that to make said hospital better + pay interest/loans/investors back and many other things.
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That does make sense, so I guess my whole schpeal is moot probably. But still, I think a lot of the fees and funding should come from money that we give as taxes. A good portion of that should go to hospitals, as well as donations and charities. I'm not saying to RAISE taxes. Im saying to use MORE of it for hospitals because at some point in our lives we are going to have to go to a hospital or get surgery or medical treatment, so by our tax money going towards these hospitals it will repay our spent tax money by saving our lives at one point.
 
well, most hospitals operate as for-profit institutions. and i'm sure the finances of a hospital are sufficiently complex (what with insurance pay schedules, medicare/medicaid, workers comp, private insurances, patients with no insurance, staff payrolls, huge inventories of supplies, big expensive buildings, marketing... it boggles the mind) that unless i was experienced in healthcare administration I doubt I could grasp what it truly costs to perform a surgery.

in all cases though, simple capitalism would expect that hospitals are allowed to make a profit, as is your insurance company, thereby assuming that the total cost of the surgery is less than the fee assessed, but your personal exposure to that fee is difficult to calculate if its fair or not.

i know that my workers comp case is now well over $250k in total fees paid to various surgeons and hospitals and health care providers and physical therapists.
 
We paid over $900 alone in latex gloves for my wife's labor. I'm pretty sure they didn't go through an entire single box, which costs like... $5? This was not the best hospital either, just your standard county hospital.
 
Yeah its pretty sick if you ask me I contracted a super strain of staph. and i was in the hospital for 7 days and i had to have the abscesse surgically drained and removed 3 times and it cost $76,000 thank god i have insurance i paid $500 -_- but i couldn't imageine if i didnt have insurance i would be bankrupt or if i knew that it was gona require surgery and had no insurance i would of gone home and tried to beat the infection by myself witch probably would of killed me i had a temp of 106.2F Not fun at all but the opiates they gave me were ;)
 
Insurance companies contract with hospitals and pay cut rates. The hospitals write off the rest. To make that back, they charge double for the next guy.
 
surgery is a prolific business in the united states.
 
Don't forget about all of the people with no insurance and no means to pay who go to the hospital, get treated, and then NEVER pay their bill! The hospital has to cover that by adjusting their rates accordingly to spread the cost around to all of the paying customers.

You wouldn't want those people to be turned away at the hospital, now would you? And you wouldn't want government mandated health care insurance. So what do you do?
 
I live in canada...so its free for me...I find its so sad for peeps in the states that have no insurance!...i think health care should be free everywhere!!!
 
Monkey16 said:
I live in canada...so its free for me...I find its so sad for peeps in the states that have no insurance!...i think health care should be free everywhere!!!
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Free? Think about that. The hospital didn't cost money to build and maintain? The equipment grew on trees? The people donate their time for no pay? I don't think so. It has to be paid for. How you pay for it is the difficult issue.
 
AfterGlow said:
Free? Think about that. The hospital didn't cost money to build and maintain? The equipment grew on trees? The people donate their time for no pay? I don't think so. It has to be paid for. How you pay for it is the difficult issue.
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its not that difficult, theyr called taxes
 
Wow, really? :\ So smart you are.

Its better that the government controls it thus it isnt out to make money, its just there as a service. Keeps cost down, which means the amount of increased tax is always going to be less, when done properly and not in a corrupt, fascist, american manner, than if its privately owned and done through insurance/other means. Thats fact.
 
I haven't heard anything good about the government run health care systems in the UK or Canada. I prefer a system of regulated private health insurance for the majority of people who can afford it with government provided basic insurance for the people who truly cannot afford it.
 
AfterGlow said:
I prefer a system of regulated private health insurance for the majority of people who can afford it with government provided basic insurance for the people who truly cannot afford it.
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This would be the perfect balance.

I am a Canadian living in the US for 11 years. My employer provides health insurance and covers my spouse and I. We used to pay about $600/month. I am grateful to have negotiated that at my current job. I appreciate how quick I can get neuroimaging done or see a specialist either for myself or for patients I treat.

My mother lives in Canada and has to wait 3 months for an MRI and a bone density scan.
My aunt died of lung cancer while waiting for an oncologist. It is all about triage.

What is submitted to health insurance companies by providers is not what the company pays. Here is an example I will code what I have done and submit $400 for the visit. The practice may get reimbursed anywhere form $175-300 depending on the insurance. Medicaid about $40 for the same visit. I have no idea how these numbers are calculated. I just bill for what I have done and let the financial dept take care of the rest.
 
AfterGlow said:
I haven't heard anything good about the government run health care systems in the UK or Canada. I prefer a system of regulated private health insurance for the majority of people who can afford it with government provided basic insurance for the people who truly cannot afford it.
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You havnt heard anything good? Oh ok, that definitly means its not good... because you havnt heard its good.
 
there are obviously costs associated with everything thats factored into the cost of your surgery or procedure.

equipment used (by variable cost or percentage of fixed costs)
cost of time for doctors/nurses based on their hourly rates or procedural rates
cost of the room itself, in the hospital (depending if its in or outpatient this varies a lot, but can be huge).
etc. etc.

most insurance has negotiated each and every aspect of these costs, but its ridiculous when you see the actual breakdown of some of it (especially in the US).

dad recently had a procedure (one day stay), cost was well over $300k USD total. doctor spent about 1-2 hours total with patient.

go figure.
 
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